The Storytelling Podcast My Children (and I!) Adore

An interview with Circle Round’s Rebecca Sheir on updating folktales — and royal characters — for a modern age.

When things get really hectic with my kids, I know a sure-fire way to calm us all down: I play an episode of Circle Round. The children’s storytelling podcast is beloved by our entire family, as appealing to our second grader as it is to our three year old.

In the midst of a loud car ride or an extra fidgety meal time, I reach for it as a respite. I can feel the tension in my shoulders ease at the first notes of the lyrical theme music. Then comes the bright, enthusiastic voice of host Rebecca Sheir, teeing up the story to come, introducing the celebrity guest, and inviting listeners to “circle round.” At this point, I inevitably exhale, knowing for the next 20 minutes my kids will be treated to an enchanting story with a solid lesson (and they’ll be quiet, too!).

Sheir and her husband, composer Eric Shimelonis, started Circle Round back in 2017 with WBUR, Boston’s NPR station. This week, they reached their 200th (!) episode. (We have listened to nearly all of them; our favorite is the Laughing Canoe.) The relief they have brought our family is not unique to us, Sheir told me.

“So many grownups, caregivers, grandmothers, grandfathers, parents said to us during the pandemic, ‘You saved us, you saved our household. You gave us a sense of calm and sanity and screen-free entertainment,’” she said.

As a parent, I am immensely grateful for this podcast; as a writer, I was so curious to learn how Circle Round stories come together. How does Sheir find the folktales? What changes does she make to adapt the stories and their lessons for kids these days? And what about the royal themes that pop up quite often — how does she think about stories centered on kings and queens, princes and princesses?

I reached out to Sheir, who graciously agreed to chat about all of this as well as how her husband plays a different instrument for each episode and the new children’s books she has written. [Said in my best Sheir voice] So, circle round, everyone! This is the story of Circle Round.

(Our conversation has been lightly edited and condensed.)

Thank you so much for doing this! My kids were starstruck when I said I would be talking to you — you’ve earned me major mom points. Let’s start at the start. Where did the idea of Circle Round come from?

Rebecca Sheir: WBUR, Boston’s NPR news station, came to us. My husband, Eric Shimelonis, is a sound designer and a composer. It was February 2017 and we had recently quit our jobs in Washington, DC and moved to the Berkshires in Western Massachusetts to start our own audio production company. I have a background as an NPR host and reporter, both nationally and for member stations. He has done sound and music for film and a ton of theater. So we thought: Let’s pool our skills and make stuff.

Rebecca Sheir and Eric Shimelonis started Circle Round in 2017. (Courtesy photo)

Our first client was Slate Magazine, then WBUR called. I had a relationship with them that dates back a very long time to when I was a reporter in Alaska. I hosted my own show for the Alaska Public Radio Network and I used to file stories for Here & Now, which is the daily news magazine out of WBUR. They heard this rumor that I had quit my job in DC and that I was now for-hire as a storyteller with a husband who knew how to do sound design and music.

They also heard that I had a new baby, which was true — I had a one year old at the time. They were interested in making a children’s podcast but didn’t have the bandwidth or the staff to make it happen. So they thought: What if we give this couple a try? All they knew was they wanted it to be for kids and ideally to have a celebrity component. At the time they were producing Modern Love, which was a podcast based on the New York Times column of the same name. They’d get someone like Angela Bassett to read that week’s Modern Love essay. They loved the idea of having someone famous, but appealing to children.

So we thought: Well, what does that mean? It’s not enough just to have Connie Britton read a fairytale. That’s not interesting to us. We are all about using sound and music and language creatively. What if we make old-fashioned radio plays out of age-old folktales, ideally age-old folktales that aren’t well-known the world around? Perhaps they’re really well known with their home culture or home country or home region, but outside of the world, they’re not as well known?

We’re not going to do something like the Brothers Grimm. We’re not going to do the Three Little Pigs or Little Red Riding Hood. Let’s do some research and find some really interesting folktales. We can get a famous person to play the lead, or maybe two famous people to play the co-star, and then hire talented voice actors from around the country to fill in all the other parts. And then Eric could do original music and sound design. So we made a pilot. 

Our first episode was from a Yiddish folktale. Jason Alexander happened to be in the studio at WBUR doing a Modern Love episode and we asked if he could please put an extra 30 minutes on his studio session to record for us, which he did. He was terrific. And we had our first episode. It was called, It Could Always Get Worse. It was a pilot episode, which meant that it had to get the green light from the higher ups at WBUR. And it took a while. Eric and I were on tenterhooks trying to find out: Does this thing, Circle Round, have a future? Finally, it got the green light and I’m happy to say that now we are in our sixth season. 

What do you look for in a story?

There are a number of things we’re looking for. We want diversity, geographic diversity and cultural diversity. I keep a map on my computer and I’m always putting little digital pins when we’ve covered a folktale from a particular country. The goal each season is to have that world map so covered with pins you can’t even see the countries. It’s very important to us that we get the whole world represented. I could do a whole podcast of just Irish folktales or just African folktales or just Jewish. But the goal is to really cover the world.

And we know it’s working because we get emails from the world over saying, Wow, I’m from the Marshall Islands and I haven’t heard that story since I was a little girl growing up. Or Oh my goodness, my grandma was Irish and she told me a version of that story when I was growing up. And that’s a great feeling.

Other than that, we’re looking for a diversity of themes, of lessons, of main characters. And sometimes we have to contribute our own diversity when it comes to that last point. Most folktales, it’s a hero, it’s a male, it’s the guy going out to save the day. We want some more equity there. 

You mention at the top of the episodes that you adapt these stories. What is that process like?

The very first time we made a change was our first episode, It Could Always Get Worse. The main character was always a guy, he goes to consult his rabbi. And in all the old Jewish versions, the rabbi is a man. Well, we changed it to a wise old woman instead of a male rabbi. Episode two, Stella and the Dragon, is an old Romanian folktale known as “Stan and the Dragon.” We turned Stan into Stella. Why not have a great fierce woman go out there and have a battle of wits with a ferocious dragon?

We’re looking for diversity in culture and geography, themes, characters, and also the kinds of stories. Folktales can be broken down into a hundred different tropes and motifs. I don’t want to do all riddles. I love real stories, for example. I love origin stories: Why is there thunder and lightning? But we don’t want to do all origin stories.

You mentioned that WBUR wanted a celebrity guest as part of the podcast. I’m curious how that works. Do they find you or do you find them? 

It’s a combination. Originally, we did a lot of tagging on with Modern Love. If somebody was in the studio recording Modern Love, we’d say, Hey, do you mind, Kathryn Hahn, we’ve got this story, Stella and the Dragon. Stella is an awesome character. She said yes, immediately. Because at that point in her career, she had young children who weren’t able to watch any of her shows or movies because they were too adult. She said to us, “This is the first thing I’m going to do since my kids were born, that they can actually see mommy at work, experience mommy at work.” That was cool. 

Nowadays, we do our share of pitching. We reach out to publicists because technically we are considered a publicity or press promotional opportunity, like an interview on Fresh Air. But at this point, we also have a lot of publicists pitching us. Word has gotten out that we have this podcast that’s heard in 160 countries and that gets over a million downloads a month. And a lot of actors are interested. They just wrote a new children’s book that they want to spread the word about. Or they’re starring in the next Pixar movie and they want to get the word out. So it’s nice. Now we have actors approaching us saying I want in, I want to be part of this wonderful creation where you’re bringing these age-old folktales to life.

(EH note: One of those guest voices is Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York. She has been featured in two episodes of Circle Round: The Missing Knight and The Princess and the Bee.)

Has anyone surprised you?

Gosh, one of our guests that was more surprising — just because it worked out — was Ed Asner. He has since left us. But we wrote this folktale where the character was turning 100 years old. He was having a big party. And I wanted someone who could actually bring that gravitas and experience to the role. I didn’t know any actors who were 99 years old. But I’ve always liked Ed Asner, who used to be on the Mary Tyler Moore Show and, in more recent years, was in movies Up and Elf. He has always played this old, experienced, sometimes grizzled man. And I thought, Why not, why not reach out? He’ll either never return the email or he’ll say, “No, I’m too busy because I’m Ed Asner.” 

Turns out, his manager was his daughter. And she said, “He loves doing things for children. He’ll do this in a heartbeat.” And he did. And I got him in a studio in California. I was on the phone with him while he recorded. And he could not have been more wonderful, warm, and generous. That was one of the first “wow” moments with our podcast. (EH note: You can listen to that episode, called 100 Rooms, here.)

I write a lot about the British Royal Family and I can’t help but notice that royal characters and storylines pop up quite often in Circle Round. Why is that and how do you approach royal topics?

Royalty — kings, queens, princes, princesses — is very, very common in old folktale tropes. One of the most common motifs you’ll see in folktales through the ages, in many different cultures around the world, is the king who needs to marry off his daughter. So he holds the competition or has a challenge or a test: Who can I pick to marry my daughter? 

In my research, I’d say I’ve run into this folktale hundreds, if not thousands, of times — and not once has that idea interested me. We will translate that idea. Quite frequently, we will change the king to a queen. And we have made that challenge come out in a number of different ways. In a story called Curious Boots — Colin Hanks, Tom Hanks’ son, starred in that one — instead of the king marrying off his daughter, it was the queen who was just going to give riches or a reward to someone who solved a problem. She was having some problems with her kingdom.

In Katya the Quick, we changed the king to a queen and the queen was looking for a new royal advisor. And this wise woman, Katya, was able to solve the queen’s riddles and then she got to be her royal advisor. So we’re not interested in this thing of the king saying, “I must find the perfect husband for my daughter.” We’re just not interested in that.

Another thing you’ll see in folktales is, quite frequently, the king and queen, prince and princess, the royalty figures, they’re not realized human characters. They’re not complex. We’re trying to make them real. We just did a story called the Princess and the Bee, which I adapted mainly from old stories about King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba holding sort of a contest to see who was more clever, who was more tricky. I did not want to keep that King Solomon, Queen of Sheba thing. I wanted to make it about relationships between royalty. (EH note: This is the episode that features Fergie!)

I came upon this idea of a queen testing her daughter, the princess, to see if she’s ready to take over the throne. I made the queen a very stern rule-following, rule-abiding, common sense, no-nonsense woman with this daughter who does have a sound, sensible head but also has a warm and fuzzy heart. She’s all about kindness and treating people well. And what the queen learns through the test she’s giving her daughter is it’s not just about common sense and cleverness. You also need to have a warm heart if you’re going to be an effective ruler. So we really try to add dimension to our royal characters. They’re not just figureheads. There’s a heart there.

I’m fascinated at how prevalent a similar sense of hierarchy remains in so many stories made today. Encanto, one of my kids’ favorite movies, isn’t about a royal family but the Madrigals have that feel.

Like Moana, the daughter of the chief. There’s definitely a very prevalent thing with leadership.

Yes! As a storyteller and somebody who adapts folktales, why do you think that narrative is still used so widely?

Whether intentionally or not, stories where you see leadership represented can teach children to be better leaders. They can teach children what it means to be an effective leader. It’s not just about having a strong hand. It’s about listening to your people, listening to your subjects, understanding them. 

So many folktales involve usually a king disguising himself as a peasant and going off in disguise throughout the kingdom, to see how his people really live. We’ve done that in a number of folktales because only through watching the regular everyday people, can these leaders understand how they can be more effective rulers.

I appreciate how the lessons are wrapped into the stories. My kids seem to be absorbing them without realizing it.

If we’re doing our job, like you said, the themes and morals and lessons are being absorbed. We try not to be pedantic or didactic or keep hitting the things over the head: The moral of the story is... We try to shy away from that and let the kids figure it out on their own, through showing and not telling. Through powerful storytelling and strong characters, aided of course, by my husband’s sound design and music. I have to give a little shout out there.

The music is fantastic! What is it like to work with your husband? And how does he craft the music for each episode?

We work together wonderfully well, which feels like a miracle from heaven. So many married people, friends, say: We don’t know how you guys do it; we would not still be married! But we started collaborating on our very first date, which is a whole other story. Our creative collaboration goes back many, many years. 

Eric will tell you he is not a virtuoso on any one instrument, but he’s able to play all of them, which comes in handy. Because from the very beginning, he gave himself a challenge. Each season of Circle Round — and each season is usually 35 or 40 episodes — he’s going to use one solo instrument for each episode and not repeat that instrument over the course of the season. Which means for a season of Circle Round you are going to hear 35 to 40 different instruments from around the world. Sometimes he chooses the instrument because thematically it’s appropriate, going back to Stella and the Dragon, our season two episode with Kathryn Hahn, he chose the double bass, the orchestral bass, this huge deep, booming instrument, which was sort of a stand-in for the dragon.

But more frequently, he will find an instrument from a region where the story comes from. We have the sitar for A Taste of Honey and some other Indian stories. He’s used the pipa in some of our Chinese tales, the shamisen in some of our Japanese stories. We just had a West African story where he got the actual flute that the main character has. It’s all about her flutes, her beloved flute, and losing her flute. So we are getting packages on a weekly or monthly basis from all over the world, as he orders more and more instruments to help diversify the musical palette of Circle Round.

That’s incredible! And now you all have published books! It feels like such a natural segue, but tell me how that happened?

We developed a relationship with Storey Publishing, which is an imprint of Workman, which is now part of the Hachette family. Storey Publishing is based in Berkshire County, and we live in South Berkshire County. They discovered us when we first launched the podcast. We had some local coverage about this couple in West Stockbridge, making this world-famous podcast out of their basement.

Storey Publishing called us and said, we’d love to do something with you. And at that time they were only doing nonfiction. And they said, “Would you write a book about telling stories?” And I said, “Honestly, no, I’d rather not write a book. Could I just write a story book?” And they said, “Well, we don’t do fiction.” And I said, “Would you consider it?” We talked for a year or two about this, then WBUR got involved. And it was decided they were going to launch their very first fiction books through Circle Round.

To begin with, we decided we would pick four episodes of Circle Round, ideally as geographically and culturally diverse as possible, then change them into picture books and get an illustrator based in the actual place each folktale was from.

I have yet to meet my illustrators because they are in Turkey, India, Ethiopia and then I believe our artist for the Great Ball Game is in Canada. It’s been an amazing process. First of all, changing these stories that were written for the ear to being written for the eye. But they’re also being written to be read out loud. So every time we go back and forth with the illustrators about the setup of the page or the language: How will it be easiest for grownups and kids to read these books out loud?

circleroundpodcast

A post shared by Circle Round (@circleroundpodcast)

I have to close by saying thank you. You’ve given parents an incredible gift. Whenever we hear the theme music come on, I’m like: Ok, I can take a breath.

When we hear that it’s appealing to grownups as well as children, that’s when we know we’re doing something right. We want it to be a podcast that the whole family will listen to together, that everyone will find engaging and interesting and compelling and frankly not annoying. There is some children’s entertainment out there that can be a little much for the grown-up people in the world. So we really are trying to reach out to everybody.

My thanks to Rebecca! You can find Circle Round wherever you listen to podcasts. Click here for the three Circle Round books out now and look for the fourth, called The Lion’s Whisker, this May.

ICYMI: I’ve moved my recommendations to my website! Check out One Quick Thought (or 1QT for short) each day for what I’m reading, listening to, and watching, as well as what I’m shopping. This week’s 1QTs include a way to deep-clean your pillows, a podcast primer on the Silicon Valley Bank failure, and the $13 swimsuit I bought both my boys.