So Many Thoughts on Archetypes, the New Podcast from Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex
So Many Thoughts on Archetypes, the New Podcast from Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex
How the format, tone, and line-up of guests perfectly suit Meghan in her new chapter.
Welcome to So Many Thoughts, a semi-weekly newsletter about royal style and the other parts of life I want to think through with you. You can subscribe here and follow me on Instagram at @EHolmes. Thank you!
Today I woke up to a big piece of royal news: The first episode of Meghan’s new podcast dropped! Archetypes aims, as the Duchess of Sussex herself says, to “live inside and rip apart the boxes women have been placed into for generations.”
The podcast features celebrity guests and insightful experts; it is also a chance for Meghan to reintroduce herself—on her terms. “People should expect the real me in this and probably the me that they’ve never gotten to know, certainly not in the past few years, where everything is through the lens of the media,” she says in the trailer, promising to be “unfiltered.”
Below you will find my thoughts on the first episode, featuring Serena Williams. TLDR: It was so good. I highly recommend listening yourself—you can find the trailer here, the first episode here, or read the transcripts here. (Are spoilers a thing in an interview-format podcast recap? Not sure, but just in case! Light spoilers ahead.)
After you listen, I would love to hear what YOU think of Archetypes. Newsletter subscribers can hit “Join the discussion” below and share in the comments of my Bulletin page.
So Many Thoughts on Archetypes, Meghan’s New Podcast
The debut of Archetypes included this new photograph of Meghan. SMT! (Images via Spotify)
First things first, I love this format for her.
There are so many aspects to a podcast that make so much sense for Meghan in this new chapter. A podcast is also so intimate, streamed through headphones or listened to on a car drive. As I was listening to Archetypes, Meghan felt so close. Plus, she has a phenomenal voice for this sort of thing. I could listen to her read the phone book!
A podcast also gives Meghan full creative control, to talk about what she wants to talk about—and not talk about what she doesn’t. By structuring it as a series of interviews, with both celebrity guests and experts on the topic being discussed, Archetypes allows Meghan to share others’ stories and insights, while choosing when, how, and whether to tell pieces of her own story.
About that new pic!
Podcasts are not about visuals, obviously. That’s another huge plus; audio-only is a come-as-you-are way of storytelling. BUT. I know you noticed the gorgeous new picture of Meghan that serves as the thumbnail picture for each episode! The black-and-white shot is a signature style for the duchess. She is wearing a simple white tank top, staring straight into the camera with a fixed but soft gaze, no hint of a smile. Her name is listed simply as “Meghan.”
Look closely, and you will see a few stray hairs on the left side of her head—those say everything to me. They give the shot a raw and unfussy feeling, and remind me of this 2017 interview she gave to Glamour that I think about all. the. damn. time:
“I think as you get older you feel more confident and you don't need to put that much effort in - to be able to throw your hair up in that very French way [of] doing things. If your outfit is on point, one thing has to be off for you to look perfect.”
Also, in the video trailer Spotify released, Meghan is wearing a blouse with an untied sash at the neck. She is literally deconstructing a style known as “pussy bow” to promote a podcast about breaking down the archetypes women face. Tell me that wasn’t on purpose!
The tone of it all
The first one-minute trailer for Archetypes, released back in March, begins with crackling audio, eerie music, and a man declaring, “She’s a slut.” The audio montage has voices calling women “emotionally unstable” as well as “weaker, smaller…less intelligent.” Then comes Meghan, explaining the podcast in a measured and serious voice: “This is how we talk about women, the words that raise our girls, and how the media reflects women back to us.”
But the tone of the trailer released on Tuesday, as well as the first episode, is markedly different. The subject matter is the same but the harder edge has been replaced with a knowing chuckle. I hate that any hint of anger in women, especially Black women, is so often— and easily—criticized. So to be clear: I’m all for anger. But there was something that felt particularly delicious in Meghan’s laugh, heard a few times in this first episode. It was knowing, it was whole, it was healed. It also, to me, suggested she is able to discuss what must be immensely triggering topics with the benefit of a bit of space and time.
Take the laugh Meghan gave when she referred to the Daily Mail headline, “Harry’s new girl is (almost) straight outta Compton.” I was very surprised she brought that story up; that piece is one of the most cited and revealing examples of the blatant racism she faced in the media. But Serena happens to be from Compton and Meghan used that connection to just brilliantly reframe the moment.
“I’m like, I’m not from Compton. I’ve never lived in Compton. My mom doesn’t live in Compton,” Meghan says with a laugh. “But by the way, what's wrong with Compton? My girl Serena’s from there!”
It sums up this ease and confidence I felt from Meghan throughout the episode, which is also embodied by the podcast’s theme song. It is Emmy Meli’s version of “I Am Woman” and the opening lyrics say it all: “I am woman, I am fearless, I am sexy, I’m divine / I’m unbeatable, I’m creative / Honey you can get in line.”
The best first guest
Of all the notable names in Meghan’s friend circle, perhaps the biggest of them all is Serena Williams. The perfect first guest! And what a time to talk to the GOAT tennis player, just after she announced her decision to retire with the breathtaking cover of the September issue of Vogue. Still, it felt so natural for her to be on Archetypes because Serena and Meghan have a long-standing friendship. The familiarity between the two throughout their conversation feels like being let in on a secret; it sounds like the pair text all the time. Can you even?
From “world stage” to “small town”
It might be hard to see a conversation between two of the most famous women on the planet—Meghan and Serena Williams—feel applicable to the rest of us. But the duchess very wisely early on makes it clear the topics on Archetypes are relevant to everyone. Take the way she discussed the pain both she and Serena watched the other experience.
“I think what’s so interesting is even though that's on a world stage, I don’t know if that feels much different for any woman,” Meghan says. “If you’re in a small town and you see someone saying something about your best friend, that is just completely untrue, how that feels, you know.” That approach feels very Diana-inspired, making sure that the work is grounded among the people.
Speaking of Meghan
One thing that has to be so tricky is juggling how much of Meghan is in each episode versus how much you hear from the featured guest. A lot of people, myself included, want to hear as much from Meghan as possible! That’s the juggle of an interview podcast. I thought Meghan did an excellent job of grounding the first episode in her intentions for the series, drawing us all in with a few personal anecdotes, and weaving in her personal stories throughout her conversation with Serena. She ended, too, with her thoughts, a bit of a monologue on the theme of ambition.
We’re getting insight into pre-royal Meghan…
The episode opened with the duchess retelling her now famous response, at the age of 11, to the soap ad that suggested women were the only ones doing the dishes. But she also shared her introduction to feminism, and the fascinating backstory of the nuns at her Catholic high school, Immaculate Heart. I hope future episodes give similar glimpses into pre-royal, pre-Harry Meghan. She lived such a big and interesting life before she joined the Windsors.
…And she’s not holding back from sharing her royal life.
To be clear, she is not naming names or divulging much in the way of details. Nor do I think she needs to, as much as some might want to hear them. But Meghan did show that she is willing to share a bit about what happened behind the scenes. It reminded me of her interview with Oprah Winfrey, and her on-going attempt to paint a fuller picture of royal life.
The biggest bit of news was a harrowing story of a fire in the nursery in South Africa where Archie was supposed to be napping while the Sussexes were at their first engagement of the tour. From Meghan:
“Everyone’s in tears, everyone’s shaken. And what do we have to do? Go out and do another official engagement? I said, This doesn't make any sense,” Meghan tells Serena. “The focus ends up being on how it looks instead of how it feels. And part of the humanizing and the breaking through of these labels and these archetypes and these boxes that we’re put into is having some understanding on the human moments behind the scenes that people might not have any awareness of and to give each other a break.”
Leaving listeners to connect the dots
To be sure, there is a lot left unsaid. But Meghan heavily hints at how she felt in big royal moments, which as a longtime royal watcher I found quite revealing. Take the conversation at the end of the episode, when Meghan and Serena recapped the conversations they had with Harry about Serena leaving professional tennis.
“The three of us really know that sometimes the right decision isn't the easiest decision,” Meghan says.
Later, she offers this: “It takes a lot of courage, I think, too, to stop something in many ways than to keep going sometimes.”
It’s obvious we are not talking about just tennis! But because Meghan doesn’t say it outright, there’s no way anyone can quote her on it or criticize her for it. It’s a savvy, and safe, way to share.
A preview of what’s to come
Meghan ends the hour-long episode with the ultimate teaser for her next guest: A quick “La la la” from the one-and-only Mariah Carey. WHAT. My turn to chuckle! Such a flex. That episode promises to be good.
There are plenty of other names to look forward to, too. The first few minutes of the episode featured a compilation of unidentified voices as a bit of a tease—but there’s no need to guess who they are. Spotify released a transcript that puts names to the quotes, including Margaret Cho, Mindy Kaling, Robin Thede, Allison Yarrow, and Ziwe. So stay tuned!
What did you think of the first episode of Archetypes? Let me know in the comments of this newsletter!
Five Things To Check Out This Week
READ / I was disappointed by the pictures of Linda Evangelista on the September cover of British Vogue, in which everything but her face is covered. Vanessa Friedman sums up the supermodel's backstory and the choices made in the cover shoot: “The airbrushing of insecurities in which fashion has always indulged seems increasingly like a relic of another age, perhaps best relegated to the dusty archives of academia rather than preserved on the covers of magazines.” But mostly, it is the last line of Vanessa's piece that got me. Read to the end! (New York Times)
READ / Did you all see the pearl-clutching over a video of the 36-year-old Finnish Prime Minister dancing? Well, this response — more women dancing — wins. (Washington Post)
LISTEN / I found a lot to take away from the interview with Malcolm Gladwell, including what social media is doing to our kids and the importance of holding ideas lightly. (Armchair Expert)
READ / I welcome any and all pieces that start a much more frank conversation about the myth of “having it all.” Jo Piazza writes: “I can do what I do today—write books and make podcasts and raise children all at the same time—because of three very important things: because of access to legal and safe abortion, because of easily available contraception, and because I can afford to spend a large portion of my income on childcare.” (Marie Claire)
READ / What the children of the first mom bloggers think of their earliest lives being shared on the internet. (Romper)
The So Many Thoughts Newsletter comes out twice a week. You can subscribe and catch up on the archives here, including:
➡️ Behind the Scenes of Jessica Yellin’s Interview with Meghan, The Duchess of Sussex
➡️ Thoughts on the New Cambridge Portrait from an Art Historian
➡️ What Makes Anna Wintour So Powerful?
💭 Have Thoughts to share? I’d love to hear them! Hit “Join the Discussion” and leave a comment on my Bulletin page. You can also send me an email atHello@SoManyThoughts.com.
(Header photo via Chris Jackson/Getty Images for the Invictus Games Foundation)